The value of international expertise in the boardroom

Intro/Outro (00:08.684): Welcome to the Corporate Director Podcast, where we discuss the experiences and ideas behind what's working in corporate board governance in our digital tech-fueled world. Here, you'll discover new insights from corporate leaders and governance researchers with compelling stories about corporate governance, strategy, board culture, risk management, digital transformation, and more.

Dottie Schindlinger: Hi everybody and welcome back to the Corporate Director Podcast the voice of modern governance. My name is Dottie Schindlinger executive director of the Diligent Institute and I'm joined once again by my amazing co-host Meghan Day strategy leader here at Diligent Meghan. How are you doing today?

Meghan Day: What a month November has been already or like what a year November has been already. I mean we are ending 2025 with I feel like as much of a bang as we started 2025.It's been quite the rocky road. mean I'm top of mind for me. I think top of mind for everybody. We've got the government shut down. We've got airport shutdowns just in time for Thanksgiving. We've got all sorts of crazy things happening here in the United States right now.

Dottie Schindlinger: For the sake of our listeners, I hope so much that this is old news by the time they listen to this episode and that the government is back open and everything's good. I've got two flights coming up in the next several days and I am not looking forward to the lines at TSA. Here in Philadelphia, they've actually shut down two gates. So all of the TSA pre-check everything is through three terminals rather than five, which is just madness.

And they've of course, you know, canceled 10 % of the flights. I mean, it's, yeah, gonna be an interesting, gonna be an interesting experience. I'm planning to get there bright and early so I can hopefully get on a plane.

Meghan Day: Remind me to never join an airline board of directors.

Dottie Schindlinger: That is such a true statement because you know they're all going to get blamed for something that they have no control over. mean that's that that honestly that is such a typical thing for airlines. There's a lot that they do have control over but they can't control the weather, they can't control the government, they have no control over these things and yet they're the ones that are going to have to apologize profusely to all their customers when they have to cancel their flight. I mean it's just it's just a mess.

But you know, Meghan, I was really glad we got the opportunity to speak to someone who can maybe take us out of our little bubble here. I feel like we are so inured with news about what's happening in the US. And I don't know about you, but I am tired of it. I think I'm maxed out on news about what's happening with the federal government and what's happening in the US. I want to know what's happening elsewhere in the world. I don't know if you feel that same way, but I'm like, you know, there's a whole big shiny planet out there.

Meghan Day: I'm sure there's other things going on I'd love to know about.

There are, mean, you're right, Dottie. just like, at this point, I've just tuned everything out. So it's all about just putting one foot in front of the other at this point.

Dottie Schindlinger: Yeah, I definitely fall down that path many, many times, that's for sure. But I was excited to have a chance to speak with a good friend, Maria Garcia Nielsen. She's on a number of different boards in different parts of the world. So she's on boards in the EU, boards in Latin America, boards in the US, and she's got this great broad-based international perspective. And it was so great to talk to her about things that are important in other parts of the world. And it's not all just about the US, reassuring to have that conversation with her. So I'm excited to share the interview with you. And it was kind of afar ranging conversation, but I think that was great. I got to talk about a lot of things that are interesting and different from all the things we hear in the news cycle.

Love it. Let's give it a listen.

Dottie Schindlinger: Joining us on the Corporate Director Podcast today is Maria Garcia-Nielsen. Maria sits on the boards of MiBanco, Lantana Group, and Base Protection Group. She's also an advisory board member at Grupo Sons and is the founder and president of Wharton Alumni for Boards. Maria, thank you for joining us on the show.

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Thank you, Dottie, I was really looking forward to this.

Dottie Schindlinger: Me too. Well, you we've had some really great conversations, you and I, because you serve on so many international boards. before we get into that, I just gave a long laundry list of the things you're doing today. I wondered if you could start by sharing a little bit more about your career background and some of your current roles on the different boards that you serve.

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Yes, perfect. And thank you for the opportunity. I mean, I'll start with I'm Peruvian by birth. I was born in Peru. My family moved when I was 11. So from seventh grade on, I was educated in the US, engineer by Cornell, Wharton MBA. And then because I did an exchange program at Wharton, I was recruited by McKinsey to the Iberian office. And without planning it, I lived in Europe for more than 35 years, always leveraging that connectedness to the US, being that bridge between those ideas and technologies and so on. But I've done consulting as I came with McKinsey. I also founded my own company way early in the internet days in the 90s, which is a lot of people date themselves when they talk about those moments. But I set up a business with a that was much younger than me out of Germany and we sold books over the internet where screens were black with green letters on the screen and we were bought out by Amazon. so I got to deal with Goldman Sachs and Jeff Bezos and it was a really exciting time and that sort of put the tag on me of digital, right? It wasn't called that. SoI've lived through digital transformation in many of my career roles.

I always tried and attempted to go up the career ladder like many women are, you my age did. My last role was at Office Depot. I was the CEO for a subsidiary in Spain and Portugal. And again, this is like 20 plus years later, we're still thinking how to leverage the internet and how to make sure that that channel, you know, was as robust as it could be, vis-a-vis our catalogs or our salespeople.

And since 2018, I left that sort of full-time executive role. I wanted to redesign my life. My children were my kids. My two boys had studied in the US and I wanted to have more just sort of agency on my time and I wanted to serve on board. So that has come true and I'm serving on the boards you mentioned. Mi Banco, it's a subsidiary of Credit Corp, which trades in the New York Stock Exchange, a financial services company, also on two European based boards, privately held, family owned, which is a different sort of governance, you know, I think story altogether. I'm also on an advisory role for a family in a second generation company and passionate about my nonprofit work as well. Like, you know, the, the Wharton Alumni For Boards initiative.

Dottie Schindlinger: Well, Maria, this is thank you, by the way, because you've just perfectly provided the context for I wanted to talk to you. Because I think one of the things that is really interesting about your career and about the boards you serve on now is how many different regions you are focused on. You really have this international perspective. And I think about that, that probably makes your perspective really valuable in boardrooms, but it also probably makes it more complex. And so I wanted to talk to you, what are some of the big topics or issue that are currently driving conversations in these international boardrooms. And do you find those conversations differ between the boards in the US, Europe, and Latin America?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Yes, thank you. That's a great question. And of course, I think each board is so different. You've probably heard this before, right? Each board is just, you know, the context, the moment of the life cycle of the company, of the team, of the board itself informs a lot of the discussion. I think the overall sort of umbrella, you know, you know, last year we talked about AI all the time. We talked about geopolitics all the time. We talked about the US tariffs. You know, there were so many issues that were just similar, which is part of how I bring value to the conversation, right? My exposure to different conversations with very diverse voices brings value to the, you know, the next board. And it's sort of a virtuous cycle. I would say though that, and it may be my bias, but the most important conversation, it's always about the sector and the business. know, that very deep conversation as to how good are we, you know, considering all of the aspects of our strategy. Are we being true to all of the factors that may impact based on those conversations? So based on AI and based on geopolitics, but I think the more robust and potent conversation is about the business of banking, the business of metals and where we source, the business of how we manufacture the right protection equipment. Do know what I mean? It's very deep into the sector.

Dottie Schindlinger: That makes perfect sense. I do want to go a little bit deeper though on the economic and geopolitical risks that are really top of mind for directors everywhere. We know when we survey directors and ask them what areas of risk are you really focused on, a lot of those responses come back around the economy and around geopolitics. I'd love to have you share with us to the extent that you can.

You know, how do the boards in the US versus Europe versus Latin America talk about things like tariffs and US trade policy? And do you find big regional differences or are they, to your point, are they really much more focused on sector and industry differences more so than region?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: say the first comment is that geopolitics, from my understanding, wasn't in the agenda to the level that it is today. And that's common, I think, to all of the conversations, right? I've come into board service, sort of when this was going on, whether it was COVID, you know, there was a geopolitical conversation and, you know, sort of inclination to understand, how are countries reacting? Right. And how will this stress different moments of collaboration or not? think that was already the start of that conversation. And definitely, unfortunately, you know, the wars and, and, and, know, the, this moment of tension between regions has sort of taken another step, but because one of the activities that, that I carry out, teach a strategy course at one of the institutes, sort of, you know, the Institute for Board Members here in Spain. It's called ICA, you know, like the IOD, like the NACD. And so we usually pull out from the service providers, you know, the big four companies that do the surveys, what are directors thinking about? And it was always strategy, cyber, geopolitics was not there. And now at least where I've come to be, you know, become a voice in the boardroom. It is, it has always been something to consider. I think one of the comments I would make is that I'm one of those voices that say, okay, yes, we need to know about the issues. We need to have those expert, you know, individuals come in to inform the board, but let's get a bit more actionable information on the board agenda, right? Because there is a tendency to just be informed and talk and go around the table and share the same comment. SoI'm one that pushes a bit further to say, maybe not in the boardroom, but at least in the audit committee, let's do a bit of scenario planning and what are those issues that really worry us? And of course, if you get down to supply chain, for example, in metals, right? That is a very sort of operational conversation because it's not easy to just keep it at a high level. You do have to say, okay, it's not easy to just find suppliers and it's not easy to develop those relationships. The same thing may happen with, you know, where do we, how do we think about capital allocation if we are operating in a region and that's where we're putting all our bets. Do we diversify that and what regions do we choose?

How do we envision the politics around those regions? Right? Those conversations are important. And so I do think definitely it is local. It's a local reaction to these top top issues and to, again, very sad, but I just mentioned to you, I serve on a board in Peru. Peru is undergoing major, major political unrest right now. And so you can't walk away from that because

Your bank offices are exposed, your clients, your employees, right? So, you know, it is a global issue, right? Local, local impact.

Dottie Schindlinger: Yeah, takes it to your point, it takes it away from just being sort of a theoretical conversation to being sort of, okay, now what? What do we do about this? What do we, you on the ground, what do we actually need to do? I want to maybe shift gears a little bit and talk about a specific topic area, which is diversity, equity and inclusion, because, you know, one of the things that has definitely happened here in the US is really for the previous five year cycle, it was a very important topic. There was a lot of energy around it, a lot of focus on it. And then really in the past year, that has shifted and there's not really quite as much conversation or focus on it at this point in time, it's kind of become a little bit taboo. I don't get the sense that that's true at all in other regions of the world, particularly in Europe. And soI'd love to just kind of get your sense. You serve on different boards in different regions. How are you comparing the way things like DEI are being discussed and prioritized in these different boardrooms across regions? And sort of what's that experience like for you? It's like one boardroom, maybe it's not a topic, another boardroom, it's a hot topic.

How do you navigate that?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Thank you for that question. I think, I mean, the first point I would raise is that equity and diversity means so many things. And again, it depends on the context, right? For sure. Both you and I are women. And of course that is part of our reality, right? And so the, probably when we walk into a room, when we notice who's around us, that is one of the first elements that we understand because there's commonality in our experiences, right? Sadly, I will never know how my sons feel about things. I'd like to, right? But I cannot, no empathy can take me there a hundred percent. And so I've always been a keen observer of where are the women and how are women experiencing this just because that has been my reality. And if I can make things a little better for somebody, whatever the cut is, that's our service, I think, right? Inclination to make it better for the people coming up behind us. so diversity, gender wise, I think is a global conversation. Very few geographies, very few corporate systems have it resolved. And so I think that conversation it's still and will continue to be ongoing. We've made great strides. You know, we're educated, we're prepared, but there's still some lingering things that we have to deal with, our biology, our maternity, our caring for elders, different things I think remain. And so I think that will remain a big part of the conversation. And it's still ongoing, right? So I just want to sort of center on gender for one.

The focus in both in Latin America and in Europe that I've experienced with the DEI initiative was very centered just on gender because you don't have the same conversational themes around race or around being a Latin person in Spain, right? That doesn't really make sense. But still you have some underground issues like immigration in Europe is something to consider, right? The different racial, historical, you know, makeup of Peruvians, you know, whether you came through the slave trade or whether you are, you know, an Indian origin, but it takes a backseat to gender. So I think already in the height of that focus, there were differences and there are also differences now. I think Europe hasn't. You know, it's observing what's happening in the U S but Europe continues with this, you know, agenda. The CSRD, which, which includes part of that has a timeline and we are preparing for it. However, corporations, American corporations are very big in, in, you know, I'm part of the American chamber of commerce here and you have all of the big players. And if that is going on in the U S it definitely impacts how those corporations are approaching conversations locally here as well. Right?

Dottie Schindlinger : I think that's a great point and it can get really complex, right? Because to your point, we were sort of talking about DEI, but also on ESG. I mean, you mentioned the CSRD, the Climate Sustainability Reporting Directive in the EU. If you do business in the EU, you have to comply with CSRD and it doesn't matter where your company is based. And if your company is based in the US, there's obviously a very different political moment around ESG issues and around sustainability. But at the end of the day, it's one planet earth.

We have to try to figure out a way to navigate all these things. I just be curious to know, to what extent do you find yourself kind of educating your fellow board members about the way things are in other countries? Is that something that tends to happen a lot in your board meetings? Are you saying, you know, in Peru we do X, Y, and Z, and in Spain we do X, and Z. Is that something that comes up a lot for you?

Maria Garica Nielsen: Yes, but you know, would say that's part of my nature as well. I was talking about my moving to the U S and I think in my yearbook in high school, what they wrote is in my country because I would always call out, in Peru, do things differently, but it's also been part of my sort of hidden power, right? The fact that I knew other realities that I was humble enough to say, Hey, you know, I recognize that this is what I'm experiencing, but I've seen different patterns. I've had to adapt. I've had to reconcile those realities, right? I think that adds value or I hope to turn it into something that adds value. SoI've always been one to say, what can we recognize as a value added mechanism that we can include here? My bridging America, the US with Europe when I first came was a huge value add, right? The same thing the other way around, when I worked at Office Depot, part of my value add was, you know, perhaps some of the mechanisms that we have to sort of govern international subsidiaries may not be the most efficient ways to do that because by the time decisions, you know, get carried out through the different levels of the hierarchy, you know, you're sort of impeding the agility that we require to be competitive in our markets. It works both ways, but it definitely adds value. It's all about diversity, right? It's all about diverse thought, leadership, if you can include those voices in your approach to problem solve.

Well, and going back to something you said earlier, I diversity means so many different things. And one of the ways that boards can really get advantage out of diversity is to have international voices in the room. So people that bring a different perspective, particularly if that perspective is part of a market that's very important to the company. So I think that's incredibly, incredibly valuable.

Dottie Schindlinger: I don't want to gloss over the fact that you have a long career in the tech sector. And I think it would be really great to talk a little bit about kind of the international dimension of having been a tech executive and having been early in the tech space and then continuing on in your work with Office Depot, what do you see in terms of kind of regional differences around the approach to technology adoption and innovation across these different boards? I mean, you're in a lot of financial services companies and they tend to be in many ways on the kind of front edge of a lot of technology transformation. So what are some of the things that you see that kind of shape the regional perspectives around tech?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Similar to the equity rights, think the umbrella around the conversation is similar. think that in my experience and in my years, the US was always one step ahead of the conversation, of the implementation. in, you know, especially, you know, vis-a-vis Europe and the years where I was an executive, I think that was always sort of the case. So you always look to see what was happening. I think Asia now has a lot to say and we're looking at some of the technologies that are around there as well. that is, I think that highlights the differences more in adoption, not necessarily access because I think the more global we've become, as we mentioned before, the same players are making sure that on a global basis, those conversations on, you know, whether, you know, at one point it was the cloud, you know, or whether it was, you know, having CRNs and ERPs, right? All those conversations were taking place sort of at the same time, but you could see what you could basically plan for if you looked at the U S cause it was a bit more advanced. And I think that's always helpful in how you implement those solutions. SoI think that is still going on.

Yeah, you also had some differences in, example, credit card adoption, mobile, know, mobiles, the, way Europe adopted some things or the way you're seeing another, you know, that was always faster in the U S right. So you have to be able to say, it's not always the same playbook. You have to be observant and see, you know, what is it that that's happening in each of your local context? You know, I just finished this delegate program. It's a training program to be a delegate in web three. I don't know how much you know about web three and the blockchain and the layer two, the way the decisions are governed sort of like the role of the board member for these DAOs is, you know, distributed autonomous organizations and for the protocols are just so similar in understanding what the technology, aspiration is way, way ahead of the reality of adoption. And I think that has always been my experience with technology. And that reflects or sort of talks to your point. It's not about the possibilities that technology allows. It's about how ready you are to be able to leverage that to transform whatever you're trying to impact.

Dottie Schindlinger: And I get the sense from what you're saying that that's pretty universal around the world. That the aspirations always sort of out pace the reality. And that's not surprising, right? I think we always have to kind of think big, dream big, and push forward. I'm so glad you came on the show to share your perspective, but before we let you go, there are three questions that we like to ask every guest that joins us on the show. So the first question is, what do you think will be the biggest difference between boardrooms today and 10 years from now?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: I think that's a great question. But if I think back of 2015, it seems like yesterday to me, right? Years go so fast. I am probably again, more aspirational that, you know, based on reality, but I do think that boards, just like everybody else will be able to leverage agents, you know, this idea of AI and agents doing some of the grunt work for the tasks that, you know, are required for board service. Hopefully, we will be able to understand, what is it that an agent can do and how is it that we can continue with the human experience part that adds value to the conversation? And I've seen some of that in this DAO environment, right? I think in the blockchain, because everything's so transparent and everything is recorded, there's this inclination to say, okay, technology will resolve everything. It doesn't. You still need the liberation. The technology can make it. That information is available, transparent, it's real time fast, but you still need that space. You still need that guidance. You still need that presidential chair element to ensure that conversations are inclusive and advancing the topic.

Dottie Schindlinger: That's great. And what was the last thing that you read, watched, or listened to that made you think about governance in a new light?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Well, I'm always thinking about governance, right? I think it becomes part of how I see things. I read a lot. I have books all over. I have audio books and wherever I can. I'm currently with three books. One great book that comes to mind with governance is The Politics of Chimpanzees. One of my sons had an anthropology degree and he left me his textbooks.

And he sort of pointed at some of the social sciences books that were interesting. the idea behind power is so relevant to boards. It's so relevant to the board CO dynamics. It's so relevant to the board matrix and the board composition. So that was definitely one that changed my approach to understand the basics of how do I make sure that my voice is impactful?

And then just want to mention, you know, one more thing. did read a book by a fictional book by, you know, Mario Vargas Llosa from Peru. And it helped me understand my Peruvian board, my Peruvian context, my Peruvian reality. So I hadn't gotten to that, right? I hadn't understood how important it is to understand the local context and the culture because I've never lived there. And that was really important.

Dottie Schindlinger: That's fantastic. Do you happen to recall the name of the book?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: It's in Spanish is conversiones, conversacionesen la catedral. I'll send you the links for you to reference.

Dottie Schindlinger: So conversations in the cathedral. That sounds great. Well, can understand more than I can speak. That's for sure. Well, finally, Maria, what is your current passion project?

Maria Garcia Nielsen: I'm dancing flamenco these days. So that is, you know, I'm on my third year with recitals in June, just like, you know, little kids in the ballet schools. But I have to say, I have to mention we're an alumni for boards. I started with eight people from my class that were on the same journey, just as interested as I was as an aspirational, aspiring director. And now we have close to 1,500 alumni with great support from the school, advancing the conversation and I get so much energy, so much information, so much, you know, just support altogether, right? On this journey, because it's a lonely journey to be a board member.

Dottie Schindlinger: Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the show. This has been a great conversation.

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Thank you.

Dottie Schindlinger: We've been joined today by Maria Garcia-Nielsen, who sits on the boards of MiBanco, Lantana Group, and Base Protection Group. Maria, thank you so much for being on the show.

Maria Garcia Nielsen: Thank you, Dottie.

Meghan Day: Great stuff, Dottie. And always good, I think I mentioned on recent episodes too, always great to continue the conversation and the dialogue about ESG and the responsibility of organizations, particularly with the global footprint and how we can't let the news and the chatter here in the United States, let us lose focus on some of these bigger things that we need to tackle organizationally.

Dottie Schindlinger: I think that's exactly right. mean, it is also just reassuring to know that there are things that still matter, right? It's like we had this huge buildup around ESG for 15 years and then it was kind of in the space of two years, we just stopped talking about it here in the US. But the truth is that momentum doesn't just stop and it certainly is different in other parts of the world. And there are other parts of the world where there are laws that matter. And if you're operating in those parts of the world, you have to comply and you have to make sure that you are paying attention to what the norms and the standards are in other parts of the world. So I found that quite interesting. I also just have to say, Meghan, you know, I love the question that we ask everybody about, you what are the things that you've read or watched or listened to? And her suggestion I have got to read over the holidays, The Politics of Apes by Franz de Waal. I am really excited to read this book. was talking about, you know, it's obviously it's sort of a interested biologists take on how primates interact and how those politics then play out in the human primate species as well. And I just think that's really fascinating stuff. And it also, the politics of apes just reminds me of the news cycle here in the US.

Meghan Day: What a timely, timely suggestion.

Dottie Schindlinger: No, exactly. I mean, as I've been watching these machinations in the Senate and in the Congress, I've been thinking a lot about, yep, politics of apes. So I highly recommend checking it out. I haven't read it yet. I'm looking forward to reading that over the holidays when I can just read something sort of philosophical and not the latest reports on what's happening. But it'll be great to take a break and read some interesting things like the politics of apes.

Well, that wraps up another episode of the Corporate Director Podcast, The Voice of Modern Governance. I'd like to say a few special thank yous first and foremost to our international board member, Maria Garcia Nielsen, our podcast producers, Kira Ciccarelli, Steve Clayton, and Laura Klein, the sponsors of this show, PwC, KPMG, Wilson Sonsini, and Meridian Compensation Partners. And most especially, thank you to Diligent. If you like our show, please be sure to give us a rating on your podcast player of choice.

You can also listen to our episodes and see more from the Diligent Institute by going to Diligent.com slash resources. Thank you so much for listening.

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